S 4 EP 5: The Entrepreneurship Series: Afterschool Programs Are Businesses, Too feat. Kenrick Wagner

Speaker 1: 0:06

Hello, hello everyone. Welcome to school after hours podcast, where we talk about all things related to out of school sound programming and education. I am your coach, shae Lee, and we have the wonderful Mr Kenrick Wagner here with us from Game Time, so he's going to be sharing with us his experience in out of school time programming, but also touching, based on the entrepreneur side of programming. You know, getting into schools, reaching out to communities, providing those services and enriching the youth. So we're going to talk a little bit more about this business than anything today. So, with that being said, we're going to go ahead and jump into our community corner. Community corner is a segment of the show that allows guests on myself to share tips, advice or information on a specific topic with young people, families or community members. Without further ado, let's go ahead and get into our community corner conversation. Welcome, kenrick. Thank you for coming to the show. Happy that you are a guest.

Speaker 2: 1:16

God bless, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be at the number one podcast for after school and out of school time happenings in the nation.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Well, we're going to speak it into this. Is somebody going to get this? Somebody going to get this?

Speaker 2: 1:33

Yes, because I'm concerned. You're the only, so you got to be the best.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Oh, I appreciate it, I do, I'll take it.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I'll take it.

Speaker 1: 1:41

So for community corner, my question for you is what are the benefits of having an art program or performing arts program in a school or a community center?

Speaker 2: 1:57

Well, number one the benefits are is that you're giving young people an access to be able to express themselves outside of an academic structure throughout the rest of the school then. So having an arts program as a part of you know, the out of school time structure is basically a way to build community, build relationships and build talents that young people may not have access to during the other times of their lives. So it's an empowering experience and it's a part of helping young people figure out who they are and what they really have to offer to the world.

Speaker 1: 2:37

Right and I feel like that is key because I might not be the best baker. You know what I mean. Like chess is definitely not my game.

Speaker 2: 2:46

It looks nice.

Speaker 1: 2:47

I have a lot of mental strategy, you know, but it's not my game. Yeah so that's where it's going to be?

Speaker 2: 2:53

Yeah, and you know what? I think a lot of young people and adults are intimidated by the word sing. You know, when you hear the word sing, you associate it with whoever it is you aspire to be or listen to and really love out there. But what I think young people are missing is the fact that being able to just use and control your voice is a form of singing. It's approximation. If I hear this word tone deaf, you know the idea that someone cannot sing on key or in tone or what they're hearing. Well, I challenge that as a myth. You know, you can't really be tone deaf because as long as you can speak, as long as you're using words, as long as you're using communication and using some part of your body to create sound, you're able to create tone. So you can't really be tone deaf. Right, you are only being kind of steered towards what it is you're imagining it should sound like and that's what the world is telling you. But if you take it from internal and outward, then you are creating your own musical link. And that's the beauty of art, right? Art's blur the lines between what society kind of pressures us into being and you know, kind of giving us what a standard is and it breaks that boundary and says you know what. The standard really comes from you. It really comes internally and art allows us to be able to communicate that internal expertise outwards. Everybody is an expert in what they like. If you can listen to music and you can point out music that you like and why you're a musician Doesn't mean you have to pick an instrument. You can identify what sound. You can describe sound. You can approximate a mimic sound. You're an artist.

Speaker 1: 4:43

And that's right, don't put these kids to work. You're going to put these babies to work. Sure, all right. So we're going to go ahead and roll into our interview questions. Yay, all right. So, ken rake, once again, thank you for being on the show. So, for those that don't know, you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in the art school time programming space.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Absolutely so. My name is Ken rake. I grew up in a small town called left frack city, queens, new York. Those of you who know that know the rapper nori came out of left frack and drawing up. I did not have access to after school program actually. So you know, it may or may not have been in my school, but I knew it wasn't available to me for could have been reasons of you know, with my mom's work schedule or other reasons of affordability that I didn't know. So what actually happened is, you know, as I grew up in school and, you know, became a young man going to high school, graduating high school, not knowing what my next move was going to be, a tragic incident happened with my sister when I was 20, my sister turned 23. She actually passed away due to a brain aneurysm and it was nothing that we could do about it. It's nothing that we knew. There was no, I guess, predetermined signs that there was something. There was very sudden and swift, and now I could look back and say you know, I was dealing with trauma and mental health, but obviously, as a 20 year old kid, I didn't have access to that information or knew how to describe it in words. So my only way to kind of find some peace and therapy was to try to figure out a way to leave Queens and see what the world looked like outside of that, and the only way that I could afford to do that was to work at a summer camp. And so I applied to work at a summer camp in Carmel, new York, and that changed my life because we took there were a bunch of kids that also came from the city, and here I am a junior camp counselor engaging a ton of young people from Bronx, from Brooklyn, manhattan, from Queens, and from the moment that I've interacted with the first couple of childs and they came off the bus, I said to myself oh, this is me, this is what I see myself doing for the rest of my life. There was a certain feeling of leading and empowering and giving young people a space to be able to communicate, to create, to engage with each other and build these relationships, and me being sort of that orchestrator was kind of like a dual therapy experience, right. So me, I was getting away from the city. I never had these type of programs and here I am in a program, actually being a part of that and being a leader and pouring into young people. So from there I ended up working in after school programs after that summer camp has stopped. It just merged into me kind of being dedicated and involved in my work to a point to where I was just obsessed with creating more programs for young people or being involved and looking at more than just the interaction from myself to the child, but also looking from a larger scope of like, how do these things get put together? How do we build programs like this and how do we engage young people to be the best versions of themselves?

Speaker 1: 8:27

Right, right. I like the part that you bring about knowing that like having that feeling. Oh this is it. I'll be doing this for the best of my life. So from there going into after school spaces and working for different organizations. Kind of tell us about that journey.

Speaker 2: 8:49

Sure. So, like I said, I started as a junior counselor in summer camp and then I was. Then I was promoted to a division leader, who was like a manager of counselors as well, in the middle of the summer, and then I trained in the middle of the summer. It's like you're a leader, you're good, do it All right.

Speaker 1: 9:11

I guess.

Speaker 2: 9:16

I mean, you know, when the university is, some people call it guys, some people call it the universe. Whatever you choose to identify with, when the universal God chooses you, you step up to the plate. You know, sometimes it comes in the form of a manager that says, all right, it's two weeks, you're good, do it. And it's a sink or swim situation. But in my sense it was like I was excited to take the plunge. You know, some people might have been a little bit scared about it. He might have, you know, stepped back, but because it became an extension of myself, I wasn't, I had no fear. So then I went into the afterschool space and I worked in organizations all over New York City, with Brooklyn, manhattan and the Bronx and all types of programs. I mean from arts programs, sports, martial arts based programs, programs that work with like just social, emotional and working with with young people in the city and trying to give them more outlets to kind of express themselves and grow academically. And then what happened was I found myself in a space to where, you know, I felt like I was hitting my head on a glass ceiling and what's that right? So I was in these organizations and you know there were some things that I noticed about the organization structurally. That was interesting. You know I noticed that there were not a lot of people that looked like me that were in the executive positions of these organizations and you know, it didn't really matter to me in the beginning, but what I started to understand, or at least believe, was that well, if I am now serving these communities where the kids look a lot like me and they understand my culture and they communicate the way I do and they really are drawn to me, but the person that's at the top doesn't kind of look or feel, you know, with the same culture and how is there relevance between the top to the young people that are down there? Well, I'm the intermediary, right. So that's why I could hit myself on a glass ceiling, because I would only be seen as a person that could get as far as, maybe a director or multi-site director. Because maybe, just maybe, maybe because the cultural difference between myself and, you know, the executives, they may not have understood that there was more to a person like me than just engagement, excitement, cultural relevance and programmatic design. Maybe they didn't have the opportunity to see or to understand that there was so much more potential that I had, that I could be an administrator, right Like. I can handle finances, I can look at large scope, I could build programs and I can build sustainability systems. So, with that being, in my sense, a blind spot to the ones who were on the executive level of after-school management, I decided to pivot. I decided that the only way that I can acquire a position in which I can make an impact on a level that is much grander than one at a director's level or a mid-level, I would have to create this. So I decided to become what we call a social entrepreneur or, you know, an after-school entrepreneur, and I designed and created my own after-school program, which at first was called Embassy, and Embassy is an initiative and it's also an acronym that stands for Enhancing the Mind, body and Soul for Successful you All right, which would mean that we would in exactly what it means, right, very literal mind, academic support, body, art, body, sports and recreation, and soul, the creative arts, which had a, you know, a very typical after-school structure of snack, homework, help, and then you would have mind, body and soul things going on on the second half of the day. And with that, I realized and learned a lot about entrepreneurship and the potential that it would have to grow on a larger scale.

Speaker 1: 13:30

Mm-hmm, so with Creating Embassy, how did you come up with your concept for Embassy? First, Because, you have like these many things that you're incorporating in your program, right? But also, how did you add that music element into it as well?

Speaker 2: 13:46

Sure. So a lot of the ideas of creating Embassy has come from a lot of the experience that I had working in after school for all these years before I decided to create. So I seen programs that did music, I seen programs that did recreation and sports and I seen programs that focused on kind of like homework help and erection and to me I felt like why can't our young people have all of them? I don't feel like our program needed to just focus on one. We can be a well-rounded program, right. If you think of the model of restaurants, right, you have some restaurants who are like Italian food is their thing they stick there. Some are like burgers and they do these extravagant burgers, and they stick there. Then you have some that are called Tapas restaurants, and Tapas restaurants give you small place but they have well-rounded food from all different styles of cooking. And it's actually a better experience to me because in Tapas I get to go, I get to travel with three countries and I'm not as full at the end I should go on more. Right, so is that the same concept? Well, embassy is like well, I'm going to give you a little bit of mind, body and soul, because those things they intertwine, and you're going to be so inspired by all of that that you know you're going to want to seek out more, to be able to figure out where you want to be in life.

Speaker 1: 15:10

Right, okay, all right. So in designing your program, I know we had a conversation offline of the siding between you know, going non-profit for profit. So what was that process like for you in deciding and making that decision?

Speaker 2: 15:26

Oh for sure. So that ties into embassy, into game time. So when embassy started, I wanted it to be a non-profit program. Now, when I look at it, when I look back at it, the reason why I wanted it to be a non-profit program is because I worked in a majority of non-profit programs, so I was basically influenced. There was no logical reasoning behind it per se. For me it was just about the work. I wanted to do great things for young people. I wanted them to realize the potential and I wanted to know what a safe space looks and feels like in the store. But since I came up through the whole nonprofit, it became kind of. It almost in my mind became taboo not to work. If I work with kids, it had to be a non-profit structure, because that's what you're supposed to do if you're working with kids, because non-profits are the good guys. This is literally in my mind, subconsciously, how I saw it. It was if you're not non-profit, your corporate and corporate is breezy, slimy, etc. These are just the kind of things that go on in your head when you grow up and your culture is based on this. So I started embassy and I did a non-profit. What I didn't know was when I was creating that nonprofit that it was going to take me nine months to actually get the 501 seat through status. So you know there was a heck of a grind, but it was instrumental to my growth because it tested every ounce of will, every ounce of confidence and every ounce of consistency that needed to happen to be able to capture and to get that. So I get the 501 seat through. Cool, we start embassy, I'm able to legally do fundraising and now I have to look for grants. Now, when you go into the grand space, what they don't tell you is when you want these massive programs, you want these massive government grants, well, you got to do a lot of writing, yeah, and your funds are restricted. So you can go ahead and win something for six figures for your kids. But now the public or the government has influence on the wins, the where's, the wise and the who's, otherwise they pull that funding. So now you get lost. You get a little bit of loss of control of your intellectual property, if you will, when you're talking about the program design and program function Not mentioned on the back, and there's a ton of administrative work that you have to do to be able to maintain funding. Now, that structure is not bad in a nonprofit, but, you got to remember, I'm a solo social entrepreneur, right? So that means that I have to have the capacity to collect data, to program design, to function, program and report, which traditional nonprofits and at least the ones that I came up with oh, they had an office building, an entire team to do the things that I had to do, right. So after three, two and a half years, I'd say, of embassy, I decided to dissolve it because what I did was, instead of applying for government grants, I would go direct to business. So I would go to a charter school and I got my first program in the charter school and they paid out of pocket. Okay, why didn't have to go through those things? But then navigating, that is also different, because if you have a school or charter school that pays out of pocket, that's cool, but if the principal decides that you know what, we can't afford it, you lose the school Right, just like that. So from that experience that taught me so much, I decided to pivot into consulting and building a single member LLC called project game time.

Speaker 1: 19:43

Did you know that education consulting is a $1.9 billion industry, according to the IBIS World US Industry Report $1.9 billion. What could you do with that money? Hmm, something to think about, okay. So you said go back a little bit because I want to tackle a few things. So you said in applying for that 501C for your nonprofit that get tested any and everything in your soul. So it was your make it or break it moment. Give us a little bit more about that. What was so trying about that process? Was it that you really didn't have anyone to like kind of give you the guidance that you need? Or the structure itself just didn't fit what you wanted to do as far as a program?

Speaker 2: 20:34

Sure. So a little bit of both. So one of the biggest test was to be able to apply for that nonprofit. You had to fill out a lot of paperwork with the IRS, a lot of legal documentation, and when I say the word legal documentation I mean you. You have to be everything outside of a lawyer to know what you're reading and what you're responding to to make sure that you get approved, because you could apply and put it in there 9 months. They could tell you you don't have it and you just wait and waste the 9 months of your life on that trial. So so I had to find legal help and obviously I'm by myself, I'm broke. So then I had to partner with a nonprofit legal, a law nonprofit law firm. I was able to find that that was that was trying itself like when you talk about the back and forth emails, the meeting with people, the we're talking around time like zoom wasn't popping like that. You might have had Skype, you didn't have a legal zoom. So you know, going down to the city, going all the way downtown, you know hour on the train, 2 hour on the train to get down to sit with With lawyers that are helping, and God bless them. They, you know they were very helpful. They're writing documents. They're sending documents back. I'm reading it through a sending it back. They're telling me what I could say, what I can't say. Right, and then I'm also, at the same time, like Trying to get my initial fundraiser started as well, like to launch this whole program. So A lot of that and a lot of waiting where it's like you can't do, you can't move, you can't do anything, I can't start no program I can't, I can't promote. I got to like, basically wait 9 months and just meet with lawyers and cross my fingers and pray and and you know, that was that tested a lot of my will and it tested a lot of my patients, because by design, I'm a person who is, when I see something that I want to do for someone or something that's larger than me, I'm ready to turn the key. I sit around and just look around and fiddle my fingers and do nothing, while these kids don't have a program to go to. I want to be the guy to be able to do it, you know, and then I have to do a lot of the stuff around, but I had to have a job, of course, so like I had to work and then do that as well. So it was a trying time but, like I said, it was well worth it because Nothing is more like I don't feel I could have went to college for nonprofit management but I don't feel like I would have gotten the same experience and impact. Then doing it the way that I've done, like really just doing my own research, educating myself, going out there, finding the partnerships, getting the partnerships, meeting with people and kind of exercising and being able to navigate that language and learn that first hand it is. That was a priceless experience.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Right, right and jumping into now, dissolving your program and then starting game time, going with a come start from scratch. We're going with a new plan. It's not a private working like look, we're not doing this twice.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1: 23:54

We are not doing this twice, no not doing that, going into create your LLC and start game time. So what was that process like for you? And then how did you start to reach out to different schools? Because, as a now you are a provider, right.

Speaker 2: 24:11

A program provider.

Speaker 1: 24:13

So how do you begin to pitch yourself to schools and pitch yourself to different areas, different organizations? Let me see it, let me say so that they can pick you up and you can start generating money, because now it's the case of you can go directly to whomever to get the money that you need. You don't also have to apply for a grant, but I support grants.

Speaker 2: 24:33

And so do I.

Speaker 1: 24:34

You have to keep your doors open in your business afloat, because now it's a business business now.

Speaker 2: 24:39

So what was?

Speaker 1: 24:39

that process like.

Speaker 2: 24:42

Well, getting the process to get the LLC was 100 times easier.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Right.

Speaker 2: 24:49

And when I started game time which was when I actually started game time, around 2013,. But when it was incorporated as LLC, that was 2015. So because at first I just started it, game time was basically me and a friend of mine, my best friend Roger, and we would just, we would just go to camps and train. We were recognized by a sleep away camp who thought that you know, we had something special. And you know they say you got something here. I don't know what you're trying to do with it, but like your energy and the way that you engage even the staff is very you know, very interesting and it's very impactful. So we would like you to do that. So we just did it as kind of like a summer run. You know we would do our job on nine months of the year, working in after school, site directors and all that, and then we just do this in the summer. And I guess I started to believe when the camps started to call other camps and say, hey, take a, take a look at what they're doing and stuff like that. And then, you know, after two summers, I was like my mind just shifting, my gift shift. I was like, all right, it's time, you know, let's see what we can do with the summer and I mean the summer and then try to get engaged to fall as well. Right, so I started to engage schools by basically finding the emails to the administrations and all the DOE, all the New York Department of Ed, all the principals and all of the parent coordinators, so they're kind of like the lifeline and they have to head to the street. So I would just go on MailChimp and I would blast the list of these things and see what fell through the cracks, and even if it was one or two, you know I sent a hundreds of people and sometimes I only got one or two emails back, but I would chase those things. Like that was the next best thing. I meet with people. And then from the training workshops that we did, you know there were schools that were kind of like you do this so well with our teachers, do you do anything for kids? I'm like I kind of been doing that my whole life and everybody that's on my team has kind of been doing that their whole life. So yes, we can.

Speaker 1: 27:00

Okay.

Speaker 2: 27:00

So then it was. It was a moment to get a pivot moment, because I had to think about that. You know, do I want to get back involved with you know, running an after school program? And if I do, do I need to be the director? Because I don't want to be the director, right, I want to sustain, I want to build these things for other people and watch the glory. So, after giving us some thought, in 2018, we launched our first full afterschool program that served about 100 kids in Bed-Stuy, brooklyn, and hired my first director and did a training and hired a staff and then had the whole thing going on and running like clockwork, which was kind of like the game time afterschool, which is basically the embassy model, like mind, body and soul. We hired five instructors that did different things it was art, recreation, sports stuff and then we had group leaders that would assist with kind of like engagement, behavior management, stuff like that. Then we had a director that saw everything and then we would do kind of like our comedy activities, spring event, fall, winter, christmas and all of those things and began to run it that way. And in 2020, I'll take you on that timeline. So 2020 comes pandemic Afterschool is holding off for dear life because half of the schools are closing down and stuff like that. And the next pivot happened. So what I decided and I won't get too deep into it but outside of that pandemic, that was one thing. But if you worked in afterschool programs, you know relationship with director to school. Sometimes you know how to get people bump heads. There's culture problems, things become toxic and drama, I decided that, like for me at this time it wouldn't be best and let me not say for me, for the organization it wouldn't be best, because game time is about engaging, building and empowering people. If we're not in a space where we can effectively do that, then we have to make a pivot and decide that that's not a space for us. So we shifted our model to somewhat of a you could call it a teacher like an instructor, a teaching artist model, where now everything that we offers terms of workshops with kids is we bring our teaching artists out and we just shift them out to a classroom with 20 kids and they work with them in eight weeks, 16, and 32 week cycles. So it's not. I don't need to have a director and stuff like that. So that allows us. Now I can have programs running in New York, new Jersey, pa and Tampa, because all I need to do is make sure I train someone well enough to be able to deliver our workshops and deliver our philosophy, and they can go out and build a contract with the school.

Speaker 1: 30:07

Nice, so expansion at that point.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Expansion.

Speaker 1: 30:12

It's what you had to think about in order to survive the pandemic, but also like shifting your model into doing something, either digital or physical. So, you're still like in the space.

Speaker 2: 30:23

Correct, correct.

Speaker 1: 30:26

I know that was a whole jump.

Speaker 2: 30:29

Big time, big time, but it was one of the best jumps I made. I'll be honest with you Like it's so, like it's definitely less stressful when I'm dealing with 10 master instructors and teaching artists as opposed to a director, five teaching artists, five group leaders, doh compliance, doh compliance and the administrative things you have to do to make sure that you're in code at all times. When you're dealing with just a teaching artist, you're basically hiring a contractor, so they need the minimal, basically as far as like compliance is concerned. They obviously need their fingerprints. On the outside of that, depending on the state or city, most of the times they're covered under the institution as far as insurance and compliance stuff that usually you would have to do as a full program. The school will take care of that side. You just make sure you do your fingerprinting on your side and then you run it like that.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Right. So this would be a good moment for us to take a break. So everybody, go ahead, get some water. Just bathroom, take care of yourself for five seconds. So we're not going far, because we are going to finish this conversation, all right, see you in a minute. Are you a program director or thinking of starting a program? Maybe you need new curriculum that focuses on character development or technical skills. Maybe you need help establishing effective program logistics to have an impactful program culture or, overall, you just need a program evaluation. Well, school after hours consulting kids here to help. Contact us at schoolafterhourscom and our contact information is in the show notes. Hope to hear from you soon. Welcome back, wonderful people. So we have our guest, mr Ken Rick Wagner, here from Game Time, ceo and founder. We're sitting here talking about the entrepreneurship side of program providing in the act of school programming space. So Ken Rick shared with us his start out process, how he got involved in out of school time programming and discovered that he had a little something going on. You know he was giving something that the people liked. So in that process he then started to build his organization from going from nonprofit now switching over to for profit. So that's where we're going to go ahead and pick up our conversation. I guess you're at your site Now that you know your people are being recognized. People are recognizing you. You're doing workshops for teachers and they say, like you know what? You got something going on, like it's good for our teachers. We want to have our students now will react and engage with this content that you're giving right. So how did you begin to make that decision? Because it was a debate for you at one point, like do I really want to go back to being around these children every day.

Speaker 2: 33:41

And I love them too. I love them. So when it comes to like I get this program now and you know the six figures on the line for this thing, and you know I have this assistant principal who actually once worked for me in the summer camp at one point and you know kind of things, payback, dividends, you do good right, and you know she knows me and she believes in me. So of course she gave me my shot. And you know patients, whoever you are, you know I love you. I know we haven't spoken a while, but I love you to death. You know I'm like all right, cool. So now I got to start hiring. The first thing I do is Well, since I've been in this working around people that do really good stuff, I start with my network, right. So I'm homeboys, I call my homegirls and I'm like, yeah, I'm starting this thing. Whatever y'all could do to help. This is the deal. Let's get it together and simultaneous. Of course, the vision first is like, okay, how many kids do we have? We have 100 kids. Okay, that means we'll. Do we raise one through five? We'll have five groups, 20 kids, do all of that stuff in my mind. And then it's like, because it's the stuff that we know as directors, right? It's like, okay, so now I need the hire, right? Okay so I need five instructors, and then I need five group leaders, one for each instructor, who kind of be that behavior specialist or whatever. Then I need a director that could bring this all together. So I go to my network, I hit my network. That's number one. The second thing I do is, now that I have this partnership with the school, I talk about what school, what teachers are in there that have that kind of spirit and skill and that, could you know, would be interesting to work in and after school. And then I do that as well. And then I go to Indeed and I put out a blast, and then one of the things that I did is I hired a virtual assistant, right. So, a virtual assistant, someone who was in my family network Janine, you're the best thing since sliced bread. She was able to conduct, you know, phone screenings and then pass the ones that she thought were good over to me and then have the interview right. And the most important interview and this is for those of you who are thinking about starting your own program, absolute most important interview that you're going to have is going to be your director of that program. Your director of that program does not share your vision, is not bought in or does not have the energy that you are looking for. You need to seriously consider interviewing more people until you find somebody. That, joe. Now, you know this, when people interview, they can put on a really good show, okay, and sometimes it is hard to find them out, and that's why I say that direct interview is important, because it shouldn't be one interview. Okay, when you're interviewing for leadership, to lead your program, you have at least three interviews. You should have a phone screening with that somebody else, you should have an interview with you, of course, and you have a third interview where you're in the room along with the principal of that program. You have to make sure that you're all come to an agreement. You may also want to tie in a clause of maybe your trial month to see how they do, because people talk about how they know schedules. They know how to train, they know how to do this and you sit down with them. They don't know, jack, right, you sit down with them, you put them in a program and all of a sudden your phone is blowing up. So I would say, definitely make sure you do that. So you know I hired and here's the thing. I'm going to say this because I'm just going to get into my story of like how I ended up exiting that school. We got everybody together, totally loved my director, where my director was coming from, called all the references, was good and she was amazing. I'm not going to hold you like first year went in, needed help with the training. Obviously I was there, I'm a visible person took on a lot of tasks, did what needed to be done, went in, did the extra work. We had such a great relationship into year two. Year two was another. You know the struggle was with enrollment. So we had to kind of turn the gears and get on rolling up and do bigger promotion and marketing. We were successful Right, year three was a bit of a challenge. I was when the pandemic hit and things started to fall apart. Now here's the game I'm going to give to you Young entrepreneurs out there that want to start any type of business, let alone an after school business. Here's my philosophy about the natural order of things. When you are an executive, when you own a company. Okay, year number one they love you, they look up to you, you are the closest thing to the man. Scott. Okay, because it's that fresh energy and I fresh spirit. Right, year two things start to balance out. Still love you, but make question a couple of things here there. Oh, what's going on? Or may give some ideas like oh, I think we could do this to improve. Now, mind you, when you're in an after school program and you're running one, you have a director. There's two relationships that are important to the success. There's a relationship between the director and the executive director, and then there's also the relationship between the director and the principal. There's more of kind of like a triangle offense thing going on here If at any time, one person out of those three or out of the loop or feel like they don't understand what's going on, or not fully engaged or the whole energy of the triangle off. So keep your eye on that and make sure that you're continuing to meet with both director and principal as much as possible. Streamline your communication between the three when necessary and only between one and the other when absolutely necessary. Year three you're hated. Year three you're hated, and I've tested this theory with so many other, not even executives, with directors themselves. Ah where by like year three, it becomes the. If people are still in the same position year three and they don't have space to grow, like me, right, like I pivoted, I didn't have hate. I pivoted because that's how I deal with things. But people start to be like, look for issues. Oh, it was, it was. It was better last year when we had yo. You remember the first year when we was? Things change, right. But when you're in certain positions, if it could come internally, like if you're, if you are a group leader, if you were group leader more than three years, you're gonna hate. I'm sorry, you're gonna be a hater because it's like I've been doing the same thing for three years. You don't need to meet. This is my philosophy. So people who hate me in the comments or you want you it's in the same position three, four, five years and you young, like you in your 20s, hey, you're looking for growth and experience. You're not looking to see the same thing every day in the majority perspective of things. So naturally you just gonna try to find something wrong with a situation, because it's just like you just seeing this, it's like groundhogs. There I'm waking up, I'm seeing the same things, mmm so it is and I I could take I could take blame for this as a leader, like it is a part of our job as leaders to create avenues for people and to create Different things for them and to challenge them now. What do they like? The challenges or not, that's on them, but it's still our job to create challenges into influence.

Speaker 1: 41:35

All right.

Speaker 2: 41:36

So that is a part of that structure. So anyway, after I didn't went through and told y'all my life story about this great thing Still a heck of a blessing. And I want to trade it in for the world because what that experience was able to do by year Three, when I decided to pivot out of that situation, was then I Challenged myself to say, alright, that was my only, that was my only program bringing the six figures. So now, how am I, how am I gonna replace that Mmm? So now I pivot. Now I can't just go to somebody that I had a relation like I had a relationship with that AP, so it was kind of like a well, I get it, that I give you, so I'm gonna make it happen. So now it's like I really had to hit the ground running and say, alright, now I'm building stuff from scratch, right. And I was back to the ground and you know what the grind is. A good thing, that's a humbling experience when people God says yo go to the grind because you too comfortable here. I appreciate that. Accept that and say you know what, you're right, get to it, because I won't compromise my moral compass for anybody or my peace if I can't sleep at night. This is not the space for me. I don't care if it's six figures. I turned it down because it was like I'm not sleeping good at night. If I don't sleep good at night, then it's not okay, right? So make sure y'all do that and leverage technology. Indeed, was was very helpful to be able to engage new people Outside of my network, and it's a healthy thing to use your network, but it's also a healthy thing to go outside of your networking. Hire people, right. Get new and fresh perspectives in your space. That's the reason why people develop this kind of like groundhogs day mentality, where it's like, yeah, it's the same thing I ain't got time for, and then they start to hate. I don't like keeping a group leader in a group leader position for more than two years. Now the do I instruct them Right. If I put in somebody in management, I keep them up. You know, three, five years, they'd be around a little bit longer because there's always fresh challenges, because you gotta Engage more schools, build more partnerships, meet more people and they get it right on in at the the front line level. I like to either make pathways for them or figure out, or help them figure out, what their pathway is Going to be right and I like this.

Speaker 1: 43:54

I'd like that you said go ahead and be okay with going outside of your network to see what is out there because I feel like, in some instance, for people that have been working with, with the organization specifically for a certain amount of time, it's a certain level of comfortable that you have that it almost feels like you're entitled to the next thing, that that's where the hateful and Be good, and it shouldn't be given to you granted on you being there for the longest. I feel like it should be given to you based on the merit work that you do and the effect and the impact that you have. So I completely get it. I completely get it. Well, this is a good point. Well, thank you for sharing your story and thank you for giving us all this wonderful information, or these two bits, or these gems, or these jewels, and Giving us a game plan of what it looks like to be a program provider and Growing your business being dedicated to it. You know, you have your ups, you have your downs with it, but if you stick with it, if you really stick with it, it could be bigger and better than you ever could imagine. So, with that being said, it's a good time for us to transition over to our professionals lounge. All right, everybody. So we're gonna go ahead and jump into that section. Professionals lounge is a segment of the show that allows guests to share advice with other Practitioners in the OST and youth development field about how they can begin growing their gifts and talents, but also develop themselves as professionals in the field. Here's our professionals lounge conversation. So my professionals lounge question for you, kenrick, is what are the main things you believe a program provider or a consultant needs to have to be successful in this field of work?

Speaker 2: 45:51

so you have to have vision, because there are a lot of people out here who are talking about what they want to be, what they can be and what they see for themselves. But you talk to someone long enough you can Determine within a few minutes whether they actually believe they can do it or not. So it's vision and that's the soft skill. The hard skills is the work, it's the grind is. It's just the ability to show up, ability to actually get out your bed and Do it now. I Said it once, I say it again we are time-based beings. Meaning that it's a matter of time, meaning this you can still get to your dream if you work on your dream once a week, but you'll get there faster if you work on it five days a week. The math will math Just do it. There ain't no math. That ain't math and it's you. Math is you. I have been around countless people who have seen it, been influenced and wanted to do things, and it has stayed in the discussion stage for as long as I can run up. It is the very few that you see get to the other side. I'm waiting for that. I'm looking for the person that's gonna come to the other side. Because when you get to the side, when you start to live In your dream and the blesses falling your lap, the one thing you realize is that it is a very lonely place. Oh, it is, it's very lonely and that is. That is kind of the the paradox of the success. It's like you dream about this every day. You go hard, you grind and you get. Then you like, why am I by myself when I want to take everybody with me? But I can't, because you take people with you and in three years they become haters. It takes three years sometimes. It's less than that. The moral of the story, my friends, is that it's, it's, it's a simple. It's more simple than you ever thought. Like I'm in higher ed and I could tell you like, if I can make it, you can, anybody can. It was just work that I put out there. I didn't even ask for it and but I approach every day Knowing that it is a privilege to be in the space that I am and I'm forever Humble and grateful for the fact that I was able to get these blessings that I get and I'll never lose or leave that and Is these basic principles. That would you know. We, we, we go, I have all around the world searching for these kind of like super complex Magic pills or magic words. That's gonna snap the fingers and then, voila, the world transforms beneath my eyes and everything that I ever dreamed of is landed on my lap. It's not that, it's the fact that you all you needed was to have a little bit of vision and just put in some work consistently, and Not only will you achieve the things that you wanted to achieve, because your time base, but I'm a walking version of the fact that some things were falling to your lap that you didn't even expect to happen. And then the real decision is I Still got to think about it, because now I got to see if these blessings are far on my lap for the right thing. Is it in the purpose of which I wanted to do what I do, and I'm not just chasing something like oh well, it's a six-figure bag or a big check. My moral and the moral compass will always shed light on On how long you get to attain and hold on success that you, that you have achieved.

Speaker 1: 49:58

Well, everyone that brings us to the end of our show. If you like what you heard and you enjoyed our conversation, make sure that you're following us on YouTube will also hit that like button so we know what you are enjoying. You can also find us on other podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, spotify and Google Podcasts. If you want to listen to our audio version as well, to get more behind the scenes stuff, make sure that you're following us on our social media accounts Instagram and Facebook, at school after hours. Well, that's all I have for today and the words of mr Arthur Ashe start where you are, use what you have, do what you can. Until next time, y'all, bye, bye.