S 4 EP 4: Fostering Growth: Insights into Effective Staff Management feat. Kam Green

J. Lee: 0:00

Hello, hello everyone. We're from the school after hours podcast, so we talk about all things related to out of school time programming and education. I am your host, jay Lee, and I have the wonderful Cam Green here with us today, and today we're going to be talking about can you guess? Can you guess? We are going to be talking about managing staff, but also giving them the support that they need during their time with us, because, as we're getting young people, as we're getting people in on our staff, they might need to be with us for a little while, or they might be with us for the long term, but the overall goal is to make sure that we're developing them as professionals, so when they get to their next location, wherever it may be, or they might want to continue their career with us in out of school time programming, that we're giving them the tools to be successful. Okay, so to have that conversation, I thought Cam would be the best person to sit down and have this chat with, so let's go ahead and introduce her. Hi Cam, how are you?

Kam: 1:10

I'm happy to be here, Always happy to talk about after school and talk to you. So real, quick intro my name is Kam Green. I have worked in education after school for over 20 years in this classroom, outside of the classroom and things like that and I also founded Rethink after school, which is focused on exactly what it says finding ways to rethink after school through engaging, enriching, entertaining, programming and professional development. And then I also developed a steam program called Junior Docs which is focused on steam. But the same thing how do we get kids engaged in that kind of thing? I also work full time as the vice president in the programs for Goodwill, which is a conversion of after school workforce development and all those sorts of things. So huge into staffing, huge into supporting staffing.

J. Lee: 2:00

I know that's practice a whole lot Kam. How are you? And I left some stuff off, just a whole lot, whole lot, but it's good work. It's heart work and it's very impactful. It's impactful work, so that's the part to account. So, Kam, so as we're going to have this conversation, let's go ahead and jump into our community corner. The community corner is a segment of the show that allows guests on myself to share tips, advice or information on a specific topic with young people, families or community members. Without further ado, let's go ahead and get into our community corner conversation. Okay, so for our community corner, Kam, my question for you is what are some things managers or supervisors can do to build rapport with their families and out of school time programming that they serve, as well as the communities that they serve?

Kam: 2:56

I think one of the biggest things that I always say and it's like it seems so simple and easy, but it's like talk to them and ask them right, because a lot of times what might work for families over here or for where you came from, or what might work for you might not work for everybody, and I think sometimes people overlook the simple fact is hey, you know, simple questions like how are you, what are you into, what kind of support do you need? And then providing different platforms for them to answer that, whether you're actually asking them, if you're doing a one question survey, if you're doing a drop box, a suggestion, but really saying, hey, we want to know what this family, this group's, a family means and what's important to you, and then acting on that. Obviously, sometimes you have to just do things and you know being available, being accessible, but I think one of the things you always have to do is make sure that you're checking in with them and then responding to what they said. Like to me, I'm like I don't make up a whole lot of stuff, you know, per se, I really try to listen to the students, the parents, the families, the workforce, and then respond accordingly, and it makes my life easier, but it also makes it that I'm creating programming or I'm doing things that are a response to what people actually want and I'm not just, like you know, doing anything. So that's that's. That's always my advice.

J. Lee: 4:11

Right, like there's nothing wrong with a hello. How are you doing? What do you need today? What do you need today? Yeah, right. So, with that being said, let's go ahead and transition into our interview questions. So, cam, great to have you in the show. This is not your first time. You are a returner, so that's great.

Kam: 4:33

I know, I think I talked to you during the pandemic, the heart of the pandemic, maybe Right Right.

J. Lee: 4:39

And we were having a conversation about program development and how to set up your programs in the best way that you can but also do evaluations to see where you are in your program and kind of make adjustments from there. So for those of you that have not gotten a chance to listen to that episode, I'll go ahead and link it in the show notes so you can have access to it and you can drop in Jim's. In that episode I was like I need a notepad or something. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. This is good, so I'll go ahead and put that in the show notes for those of you that want to listen and, you know, get that background information, because that's important. We need to know what we're doing in the program and what's tribes are we making people? Yes, now, thank you, I'll go ahead and put that in the show notes, but today we are here to talk about staff support and how we can best develop and support our staff, so we're gonna go ahead and jump into that. So, for people that may not have heard that episode right, or their first time here for our School After Hours podcast, go ahead and give them your story. How did you get started in after school time programming?

Kam: 5:42

So I got started in after school programming. I would say I'm a product of after school. So I grew up going to programs and I would not be the person who I am or I've had the opportunities that I had without those programs if my parents had and put me from YMCA to the school to all that kind of stuff and so very much aligned. I did some volunteering in college and things like that, but my start start professionally was really. I started working for a charter school in Washington DC and I actually started in the classroom. Well, no, I actually started part-time after school. I flew to DC, took a job and started part-time after school in this new adventure and they were a new school, they were about a year old, so there was some things there, but there was a lot of things that needs to be developed and my boss at the time she was like we were vibing, we're like after school needs to be engaging, it needs to be quality, it needs to be everything, and so we just really connected on that and from there it really sparked my interest and desire to say, oh my God, there's so much that we can be doing in this space and so much more. And then I started connecting like, yeah, I think about all the things I did after school and then from there it just took on and I've worked in different industries, even worked in the corporate space, but I've always worked in after school. So after work is like after school kind of thing.

J. Lee: 7:00

Ooh. So you've just been like climbing that ladder. You started at one place and then you've gotten to like your development and you also have your own organization right, your own training. So go ahead and give the people a little bit of information about how that started as well.

Kam: 7:13

Yeah. So I started, yeah, in literally as a after school provider, part-time with my own batch of kids. Come on in, let's line up, let's sit down, let's do circle time. But one of the things that I started to get into was, okay, how do we help other after school providers engage? How do we help them figure out programming, how do we help them figure out how to develop norms and things like that? And again, a lot of it was me saying, hey, these are the same students who are, you know, with the teachers during the day. They I need to talk to them, tell me about your students, tell me about what they're working on, tell me. So one of my big, big things was, and always is, is there needs to be a connection of conversation between what's happened during the day and what's happened after school. They're the same kids we need to collaborate to serve. And so I started getting into that and offering programming around that one, connecting the school day to the after school day, and then, two, how to do engaging programming, how to behavior management and things like that. And so I started working with programs from, you know, illinois to Hawaii, where I was living at the time, offering our programings just about after school can be amazing, and it's amazing opportunity for professionals and then also for the students that we serve.

J. Lee: 8:29

Right. With that being said, you know going through different things, making those connections and then now getting your own staff right. For someone, that's new, like making that transition. You were maybe a counselor, maybe a teacher for after school time programming. Now you're in this position of leadership. Now you are now a supervisor or manager. What are some things that that individual may need to keep in mind? As they are, you know, developing their team.

Kam: 8:54

Remember, especially if you were able to sit in that seat, so if you were a provider and you were working with the students. Never forget what that felt like, never forget what you struggle with, never forget what excited you and try to incorporate and you know and talk about those things. I always tell people to be honest and I'm just like my expectation is not that somebody's coming in, especially in an entry level position, and you're going to stay here forever. So let's have that conversation right up front what are your hopes, what are your dreams and how can I make sure you get that experience here so you can go to the next thing? And then also just sharing you know your story is very important, especially if you climb the ladder through that of how you got there, what it looked like, and sharing your struggles, like being honest, like hey, I struggled with kids just dropping in, parents not showing up kids. You know the behavior management looking a little bit different because they're like it's after school. It's not supposed to be this straight. So I think it's very important for your team to not see you as somebody who's way over here and disconnected. They need to know that not only are you connected, they need to know what you struggle with, and then they need to know that you're there to support them, and that's like I think that's one of the main causes of manager. What do you need to be successful? And that's my job to give it to you as your manager, and I think that needs to be an ongoing conversation.

J. Lee: 10:12

Right, but you do bring up a good point and I want us to go ahead and touch on. That is making sure that you are relatable to your staff, because I do believe that there is a point of we cool but we not that cool. I still need you to do your job.

Kam: 10:24

Oh yeah.

J. Lee: 10:26

Yeah, how do you begin to establish those lines of you know we are a team, but in us being a team like I, still need you to be responsible and do your part.

Kam: 10:36

I think you have to have your goals, your norms and this is our outcomes. Like I'm very much focused on. This is what we're here to do, and I will always tell people too. And I'm like if I would tell people. I'm like if you feel like this is going to be a it's hard, like if there's going to be a burden for you and you know you're going to be drained and things like that, and I'm like I never want anybody, but especially any child, to come to an after school program and feel that somebody is burdened by their existence. So I'm like this might not be the place for you. I will help you find something else, but I'm like the goal is that we provide quality programming for people who may not have any other opportunity to engage with a caring adult, to get some kind of creativeness, some steam, some sports. So I'm like it's game time, it's time to show up. So I'm like that's, that's where we're going right. I will help you to be ready to get there, but that's always going to be the focus. I will laugh, I will play. I feel like I have a very kind of like chill spirit, but I'm like, at the end of the day, that's the goal. And then I'm like and then for some of these families, they're paying something too. So I'm like you're going to give them value regardless. But I'm like, think about this hard-earned money whether it's $20 or $2, you need to show up and you need to show up for these students and you need to deliver. So delivering, or whatever our outcomes are and whatever we're saying we want the students to get, and whatever we promise to the parents, that's the drive. So like that's where we're going. How can I help you and support you and have fun, but this is where we need to be Like I'm all about quality. I saw too many programs and that's why I actually got into the space where I'm like what's happening? What are we doing, you know? And I'm like I can't and I'm like I couldn't sit on the sideline and I'm like I could be doing this way better and with more heart and more genuineness to actually towards outcomes and some of these people just showing up and promising all this stuff and not delivering. So that's when I stepped in the game.

J. Lee: 12:25

I know that's right. Gotta help them out. Gotta help them out. I'm out Self hold that thought. Let me share something with the people. Did you know that September is Hispanic Heritage Month, as well as Suicide Prevention Month, but also National Self-Care Awareness Month? I didn't even know self-care had a whole month. Anyway, however you decide to celebrate or bring awareness to certain issues or concerns, make sure that you're doing it with a full heart. Make sure that you're doing it with a kind spirit, but also with a spirit of excellence. Okay, with that being said, let's go ahead and get back to the show. My follow up question for you is when coaching your staff, what are some of the key things? The key things that it's important to do to help that person acknowledge their skills, because this can be a place still of discovery for them, but also help them build that skill at the same time.

Kam: 13:25

I am big on something called the SWAT analysis, so SWOT, and so when my first job out of college I worked for a nonprofit and I was one of my jobs was managing the board, and when I first got there we did this long range strategic planning, all this kind of stuff, and I became obsessed with this method and it's basically you analyze your strengths, your weaknesses, your opportunities and your threats. So 90% of the time I do it with my kids, I do it with myself, I mean my kids at home, I do it with my staff and anywhere I am, because I think it's just a good measure to sit down and say what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what are my opportunities for growth, and then what are my threats and threats are often aligned with the weaknesses but really to just kind of look at that and do a self-evaluation and I will have them do that, and then I'll come in, especially if I've had a little bit of time with them, and I'll say, okay, this is what I see, I agree or I don't agree, and then we set a path accordingly and I like to do weekly check-ins, monthly check-ins, as it makes sense to say, okay, how are we going? What are our threats and our weaknesses look like? How are we addressing those things and not just moving along? I think one of the biggest mistakes that managers and people make in general is we have this kind of urge to wanna get better, or we know something's not right, but we never stop to say this is the thing that I need to work on, and then the next step is this is the plan to work on, and we're just kind of like something's not right, I know, and it's like, well, we gotta identify it. And then we have to figure out how we're gonna work on it. So for me, that's always a tool that I use for coaching. It's like, hey, let's be honest, and I have weaknesses and threats too, and I'm like I try to manage them with systems and different things like that. So I think sharing that as well.

J. Lee: 15:03

Right, and I think that you brought up a point of check-ins. It is so important to do your check-ins, whether it I always go by, if I'm with staff, I'll do a weekly check-in, because you need to know what your weeks are going to look like. You know what activities you're gonna do, like what are some of the things that you need to accomplish during the week, all those things. Or even if your communication is strong, you could go for a bi-weekly check-in and sometimes it's just a fill-in day-to-day like how check-ins you, like you know how are you today, Like are you doing? Okay, and that gives you an opportunity to build that rapport that we were talking about with your staff, so you're more relatable and more visible to them as a human being, Cause I feel like sometimes, in this role of leadership, it could be a very isolating place. So, the thing of. You are no longer the staff, you are now the supervisor. So it did do not always see you in the same light, which is okay, but it becomes like you are this floating figure that is above and beyond. Yeah.

Kam: 16:06

I always touch on that and I tell even when I train managers and supervisors and things like that, and I'm like, and even I feel like I'm super relatable, but I'm like we have to understand, as a manager of people, that as many times we say, tell me anything, you can do anything. I'm like we have to actually sometimes set them up to do it here. I want you to take this day off, I want you to step away, I want you. We have to give them that permission and then build that so they kind of feel that trust, like, okay, I work with tons of people and one they either came from a environment where that was not the case and so they don't trust it, or two, they just haven't developed it at all, so they don't know. So I'm like you actually have to let them know. And I always tell people too. I'm like a leadership quality that I feel like people need to do. Our leadership tactic is tell your people what to do when they go on break. Tell your people what to do when they go on PTL, meaning when you go on vacation. You're going, you need to step away. You need to know that if this can wait, it's gonna go on, we will figure it out. I'm not going to be messaging you so that when I say, tell them what to do, you spend your time at your time, and I'm like I think sometimes people need that permission and so I coach on that, I'm like we will figure it out. And I'm like, and you need to know that and I think some people feel like that, oh, I gotta be always. No, you don't, you don't. And I tell them, I'm like when I step away, a lot of times I'm away, you're not gonna be able to reach me, and things like that. So I think, as a leader, you have to make them feel comfortable with whatever these things you're saying you want them to do. Oh, you can tell me anything. Oh, we can talk about any job, as opposed to saying, hey, I found this job that I think might be good for you. Do you want to talk about it? That's the kind of coaching and relationship and they're like, oh, wait, now I'm not pushing you out, but I'm saying it's higher pay, it's a leadership, let's figure out how to develop you. Versus saying, oh, if anybody wants a new job, I'm all open to it. Like sometimes people need that. True, I want to recommend you, or I want to coach you to this, and that's what I try to do.

J. Lee: 18:05

That is so good. So we are going to pause right there. This is a good two moment for us to go ahead and take a break. So, everybody, go ahead, stretch your legs, go get something to drink, come back to the screen and have a conversation with us. So come back to the audio and finish having this conversation with us. Give us a couple of minutes. We're gonna pay these bills and we're gonna be right back. So let's get started. Let's go ahead and get started, so we're gonna start with you. So first I want to ask you are you a program director or thinking of starting a program? Maybe you need new curriculum that focuses on character development or technical skills. Maybe you need help establishing effective program logistics to have an impactful program culture or, overall, you just need a program evaluation. Well, school after hours consulting case here to help, and our contact information is in the show notes. Hope to hear from you soon. Hey, wonderful, beautiful people, welcome back. We have Ms Cam Green here talking with us about staff development and how to nurture your staff but also help them build their skills at the same time. They are young professionals or they are professionals in the space and we're trying to make sure that they are the best of the best of the best, so we have the best here giving us this device. So, cam, the last time we talked before we went on break, we left off on making sure that, if your staff is taking off, that they are not participating in work, and I think that is very important for the reason of a lot of the times when we say that we're off, we're not off. We are still working, we are still doing, and that is a time that's supposed to be for us to recharge so that, when we get back into the space, we can go ahead and do our best and do our due diligence to make sure that we're showing up and showing out for the students that we serve, but also the people that we serve. So let's go ahead and speak on that part of being a leader. When you are in leadership, how do you begin to incorporate social, emotional learning Cause that's what it is and self care for not just yourself, but also for your staff?

Kam: 20:07

I think you have to talk about it every day. You know, in everything, one of the things I always say is burnout is not a badge of honor, it's a indicator that something is not going right. And I'm like and I often think that falls back to the leader so if my team feels like they have to work constantly while they're outside of work, we don't have the systems together, we don't have the framework, we don't have something is not right. Right Because if we put everything together, we have our agendas and things like that, people should be able to step away freely without saying, oh, we need this, we need that. So that's something I would always address. If we get that together, we could be better there. But I think, in terms of social, emotional learning interestingly enough, that was one of the first programs that I started with Wings for Kids back in 2004 or five, when I was at my charter school and I'm like, looking into this curriculum, I had heard it before and I'm like this is amazing. I'm like this is what we need to be focused on, not just for the students but for ourselves, because I'm like we say it, but we show up as humans to everything that we do, so it's like we have to make sure that we are okay and I'm like and it's not just the kids, because if I'm having a rough day, if I'm feeling some kind of way, I'm showing up with that same energy to my team, I'm showing up with that same energy to the students. So the first part, that self-awareness in the pie is that, hey, I need to step back for a second, hey, I need a minute, hey, I need this. I think, as a manager, it's important for you to say let's make sure we're taking this space, let's make sure we're checking in, let's make sure people have balanced workloads and things like that. I'm a huge positive self-talk advocate, so that's always something that I include in everything. And I actually am going to be speaking at the power up, scale up conference in South Carolina and at the Hawaii school, the Hawaii after school alliance conference, and I'm going to be talking about the power of positive self-talk and student and staff success and just really getting your mind right and figuring out it's not about that you're not tired and that you're not overwhelmed. It's about okay, I am, but now what it's? We talked about that in the last segment acknowledging it and then taking action. Acknowledging it and taking action. And I think a lot of people think social, emotional learning and positivity is just like I'm okay, everything's fine. I don't know, that's not what it is. It's I'm not okay, but this is what's going to help me. And then, as a leader, when you see that you say, hey, you know you looked a little embellished, how can I support you? Or not even saying that, just throwing something in there that you know is going to help them to feel better, and even just tagging them out. So, hey, go take a break real quick. I'm going to step in and do blah, blah, blah.

J. Lee: 22:39

Okay.

Kam: 22:40

Like no, no conversation needed. No discussion needed. We have to just kind of be aware sometimes. So, I think, acknowledging that we all need social, emotional learning and care, acknowledging we all need tips and not I don't like to segment that part it's in everything, it's in the academics, it's in the physical, it's in everything we do. So I think if you put it at the forefront of every single conversation, it becomes embedded in as opposed to oh, now we're going to talk about our emotional needs, like we're always talking about our emotional needs, we're always figuring that out because we're human.

J. Lee: 23:12

Right, exactly, exactly. So you, you bring up a good point and being self aware and having the conversation, right? So how do we make this a daily practice, like, what are some of the things that, as a supervisor, you should put in an implementing for, not just yourself before your team? So we talked about check ins. We talked about what was it? Being self aware and making sure our systems are in order, right? So when someone does step away, they don't feel like it's going to burn down. Everybody's going to go crazy, like it's all going to go, you know, all going to go downhill. That's not what we're doing, right, that's what we're doing, but the small things count. So what are some of the small things that can be done, maybe on a daily or weekly basis, to kind of incorporate that culture of self care and social, emotional learning?

Kam: 24:06

And I think one of the important things with doing anything like that is scheduling it Right. And so, like, here's our agenda, when we come in, we get our this together. We do this If you're doing some kind of programming or if you do some kind of professional development, like what are your practices? Open up, take a minute, that kind of thing. So I think that you have to schedule that into the agenda and it has to become okay. We greet the kids, we say this, we say that, I think giving a pause a minute, hey, everybody take a minute. And one of the activities that I always like to do is, more literally, it can take one or two minutes. It's write down everything that is stressing you or you feel that there's a barrier today and that is overwhelming. You get it out of your head and get it onto paper.

J. Lee: 24:45

Right, right, right, everything down Right.

Kam: 24:47

And then think about just one thing from that list that you really want to focus on and you really want to prioritize on, you really want to think about so that there's less chatter in the back of your brain because it's always going to be there. But just doing that and then encouraging them to keep taking that list and keep solving one problem at a time. One of the things that I think as adults and kids is that oftentimes we're trying to solve too many problems at once and we solve nothing and we become overwhelmed. So I think, giving people the tools and tips to say, hey, we're going to make this list, we're going to come back in it. Have you checked in with your list? But putting it in a place where it's on an agenda, where people see it, it's the positive self-talk moment, it's the you know, look at the let's check out your problems list. Hey, what do you need help with? That's like actually on the agenda. Now, you don't always follow your agenda, but if you have it somewhere like that, it's more often to be a part of your practices versus oh, we haven't talked about that in three months. It put it on your checklist, put it on there as an item to do, not an afterthought, like I say after school, is not an afterthought. Don't make this an afterthought, make it we have to do this. It could be 30 seconds, it could be a minute, it could be three minutes, and I think that's the other thing too. You literally could take 30 seconds, say something, have a word, have a phrase, have a moment and do that every single day, and that will be more than enough. Something like oh, we have to do this hour long and dive it. No, you don't, no, you don't. And the flip side is doing nothing at all. So 30 seconds is actually a long time, you know. So I think, thinking about those quick, I'm a micro programmer and I'm getting more into that with like programs that are 30 minutes, 15 minutes, five minutes, and I think that people have to kind of lean into that too to say we're going to do a one minute thing, that's it. Everybody stop and now we're done and move on, as opposed to oh, we don't have time, you have time, right, we can sit down and do this. We can make time, yeah, and I'm like we can make time. So it's about I say people don't need more time, people need more intention in the time they have. I think that's the name of the game 90% of time, 10% sometimes people need more time, yeah, I think that's the name of the game.

J. Lee: 26:58

Good point, which brings me to my next question for you. So in your performance, in your staff, you always have those that are doing well, those that are a little bit struggling for whatever the case may be, and then you have your neutral, where it can go up or down or they're content with where they are. So my question is in supporting your staff, how do you support your go getters as well as your ones that are struggling with, maybe, class management or the small things showing up late, whether they do better or not being in uniform? You know those things. And how do you also be a supporter for the one that's kind of in between, like they're trying to figure out that direction of how committed that they want to be to whatever it is that you are doing as a program? Because I get that question a lot and it made me think the last time I was having a conversation with a supervisor and they were like you know I have the staff members is amazing, that is great. But in the same breath I feel like there's more support that I could be giving that individual, maybe in certain areas that I might I might be aware of, I might not be aware of, but just letting them know that they can lean on me if they need to, because sometimes I feel like we take on the responsibility of I have to do it all by myself, and that's the feeling that she didn't want that individual to have. As you know, somebody that's supporting them, you know, making herself available to kind of have that individual lean on her whenever they need to. You know, if you need a minute, you need a minute is perfectly fine, that's okay. But I feel like sometimes we are so busy focusing on those that kind of really need to have that push of development, compared to the ones that just knocking it out the park all the time and like that feeling of I'm doing everything and I'm not being supported. That's one of the things that we want to try to avoid.

Kam: 28:51

Yep, and I think you know this is the same, you know, relationship to students, right, some of the low performers and high performers, you know, and the people in the middle get lost. I think I'll start with the go getters. So, with the go getters, I think it's important to you know with everybody. But with the go getters, I think it's important to acknowledge I see you taking initiative and like calling that out and, like I always say to anybody I work with and I'm like update your resume and I'll give them like a little tag around and say proactively, did so. When I'm talking to them, I want you to know that this is a leadership skill that you're developing by doing this and that is it. Not only do we appreciate it and it helps the program, but there's a value attached to it. Update your resume because now you can say you know you did this and I think, from a go getter perspective, you do have to be a lot more observant to see like is there a system, is there that I can help us put in place and just make sure, hey, I noticed you were doing this, this and that and I got you a car. I noticed you were, you know, doing these you know lesson plans over and over again. Here's a agenda, here's the template, so kind of seeing where they're operating and how they're doing and if there's something you could support. I'm a systems based person, so is there a system you can put in place is going to help them to thrive even more? And then making sure you're checking in with clearly, a lot of go getters. They have a next step. What is your next step? So you did this. I see all these skills are developing. Now, hey, maybe you want to get some more skills in this. So giving them a new target to kind of touch on and continue to develop them. And again, hey, I saw this position that might be good for you. Take a look at it and see, do you feel comfortable or the things that you need? And I think, kind of pushing them in that way For the middle of the role person who's kind of like not sure, I think partnering them up sometimes with the go getter is always good to do a collaboration, to do some kind of programming and things like that. Sometimes they need more structure. I've had staff members where I've had like a very clear outline of a plan of like these are the things you could do daily, monthly, weekly, yearly kind of grow. So I think you just have to lean in and understand that these are people that you're developing to. A lot of people work with adults and they're like, they're adults, they need to show up to work and work and they get paid. Okay, yes, that's funny and that's cute, that's nice, but as a developer people, that's what you're paid to do. So you actually need to lean in and develop them, because that's what I'm paying you to do. So I'm like, on the flip side, if you're saying they just they get paid to show up, will you get paid to develop them? So you have a responsibility to make sure that they're getting what they need. So I think, partner with them and then always asking like, what do you want to do? Be, you know, begin with the end of mind, what do you want to do? And offering up, do not say after school, do not say wherever we're sitting right now. If that's not it, you know, because I'm like this might not be my end goal tomorrow. I'm like be honest, you know about it and I always tell people about my journey and the spaces I'm working in and things like that. I'm like do. These are transferable skills to so also letting them see, just because you're in this space does not mean you can't go here, there or everywhere With the super, super low performers. Sometimes it generally is a mismatch for them. I think so. I think that's something you have to be honest about and ask a conversation to say is this where you want to be? Is this what you want to be doing Now? Oftentimes it's not. You know, it's just a job and things like that, and that's a hard thing. Anytime you're working with people, especially working with students. So what I always try to do with people like that is coach them to where they want to be. And I'm like I understand this might not be the best fit for you, but what skills can you gain here and how can you leave this position different for your next thing? And I'm like after school is the place. That's why I tell me, I'm like if you want to be whatever a senior designer you could be designing a program, doing it, getting the experience. I'm like I got to live my best life and like when I was just like full programming. I'm like, oh, we're doing, we're going to do a business, we're doing karaoke. Oh, what are we going to do? We're doing a book club. I'm like everything that I wanted to do it sounds fun. I'm like we really have the freedom to do whatever and I think that a lot of people feel this very close. I'm like you can have fun at work, especially if you work in a programming setting, especially if you're working after school. Said, if you just have to have parameters, you have to get engaged and you have to be open to saying I really would rather be doing this. Tell your manager, tell your boss, and nine times out of ten is something you could teach a child. Absolutely. Put a class together on making you know food or whatever your passion is, because one, that's a great skill for the kids and two, you're going to be more excited about it and I absolutely will sign a recommendation for cooking school or you starting your own restaurant, because I'm like she sure did put that menu together and we had a sit down dinner for course that. And I think that some people are so close in. They come in, they do their agenda, they did like that's what I try to open up people and I don't care what space it is, from corporate to the classroom. You can be doing more and you could be engaging more. You can have more fun and getting to wherever you're trying to be, but you've got to open up and you've got to have that conversation. You can't come into school on a everyday like this is where I want to be. Well, you're here. What can you do while you're here?

J. Lee: 33:48

so Exactly exactly, and you bring up so many good points in that. In supporting, like, everyone on every type of level and I think that's important, because everyone comes in from with different backgrounds, with different experiences, from different spaces so you have to keep in mind, like, what they're able to do, what they're willing to do, but also be honest with yourself and have that honest conversation. Like this might not be where you need to be, but it doesn't mean that you cannot be in this space. There's other opportunities in this space, like maybe you can't be on front line, maybe you have to be more on the development side. Yeah, maybe you have to be more on the finance side. Maybe you have to be more on the and you know the examination side and doing the examination of looking at the program. What are the things that needs to be fulfilled, what are the gaps? Maybe that is your skill. Maybe you need to be the person that's doing, like, all the schedules, because scheduling is your thing, like you got that down pack, yeah. So knowing what their skill is and then helping them develop that skill and it may not be where they are right now, so like giving them those references, like you said. So this is a good point, for this is a good time for us to go ahead and jump in two hour Professionals lounge y'all. Professionals lounge is a segment of the show that allows guests to share advice with other practitioners in the OST and youth development field about how they can begin growing their gifts and talents but also develop themselves as professionals in the field. Here's our professionals lounge conversation. Okay, so For our last segment, professionals Lounge, my question for you, cam, is what are some things managers or supervisors can do to best build morale during difficult times but continue to keep their connection with their staff, as well as their families and students?

Kam: 35:44

I think you have to be honest all the time. You know and everything, and I think that a lot of times and I tell people all the time, and even I've been hired into positions and hired into roles and the funny joke is always like Cam doesn't really know what she's doing, but she'll figure it out right, and so I'm very honest about that. Sometimes I'm like I don't know what we're doing, but I'm surely going to figure it out. So I think just being honest and transparent is first and foremost. A lot of times managers, supervisors now sometimes there's things you can't tell, but 80% of the time there's a lot more that you can share. Even if it's I don't know where we're going, I don't know what this looks like. I think people value that because they think like, oh, you're doing everything, you're keeping everything for me, or something like that, and that's usually not the case. But some people just cut off that communication altogether and people are wondering. And when people start wondering, especially in hard times, they go. It gets out of control in the bad way fast. I think you have to real people back and hey, just checking in again today. This is where we are. I don't have all the answers. I do know this. I hope that we get here, tell me how are you feeling, what are your concerns, what are you guys thinking about, and that kind of stuff, and just keep an open conversation. Again, I think where I've seen it fall apart is where the communication is and everybody's just like we don't know what's going on. We don't know what's happening and everybody's thinking the worst. And it's already these, you know, like these impeding, dooming times. So I think you just have to be honest and check in. I used to train call center representatives for CVS Health as a part of one of my jobs and one of the hardest things for them to do was to get on the phone. A lot of them they didn't want to go on the phone with live customers and I'm like, okay. So then in training, as I started saying, write down everything, the worst things that you think can happen when you get on that phone with a customer, and they wrote down everything. And then I'm like we're going to categorize this to stuff like this is way off, that's not going to happen. You know, this is something that we can deal with through training and this is something that's likely to happen, but you're not going to get fired. You just have to be apologetic and things like that, and it really eased them. So I think even asking them like again what are you thinking, what are your worst fears around this, and having that open, honest conversation and then, when you don't have an answer to it, say it. I think it always comes down to somebody thinking it's better to say nothing. It's like it's generally not right, like, even if you don't have an answer. I think that consistent communication needs to be there and I think people respond to that and it gives them a little bit of comfort too. And even you know, like I said, I tell people all the time this, this sounds like a good idea, I'm like, but if it goes awry, we're going to, we're going to look at it and we're going to pull it back. You know, I'm like I don't have all the answers. Everything I do is not, you know, the greatest and I'm like I'm going into it with good intentions for a good purpose, but maybe it was mismatched, maybe it was a flop, and I'm willing to accept that.

J. Lee: 38:30

Right, right. So another thing that I would say is go ahead and boosting morale is good to do activities outside of work, or even if you can do like smaller things at the same time. I feel like that's a good way to for you also to reconnect, recharge all of those things to make sure that you're still, you know, giving those good vibes and pouring into each other during those difficult times as well, because sometimes you might need to step out of it and be like you know what may not have gone good today, but we're going to look forward to this bowling tonight and we're going to go ahead and reset it.

Kam: 39:03

One of my favorite, one of my favorite things recently with my team at Goodwill was we did, we did a professional development. It was all about gaming. So we talked about quarter two and it was like game on. So we did a lot of official sessions but I had people bring in their X boxes, their playstations. I brought in cars and board games and all this kind of stuff and it was so amazing just to see them like they were just they, you know, they were loud and they were getting into it and you know it was in the office and so it a place where it wasn't you know too disruptive, but they were just really like engaged and I told them I'm like the people that we serve, the students that we serve, the families that we serve, you know, the adults they need this too. So I'm like, in anything you're doing, when you're offering things, it can't always be. I'm like there has to be that component and I believe it has to be for you too. And so I'm like that's why I wanted to provide this space and this opportunity to say you don't have to just show up to work and it be. I'm like you can have fun, you can, you know, engage, you can play games, you can get to know each other, and that's going to cause you to show better at work and in life. And I'm like and that's really what we're trying to do at the end of the day is like develop people who feel whole, who feel positive and who are pouring back into the world, because people who feel not developed and unholy, it creates this other trickle that we can't even manage right. That's the other part that we're trying to work and make these two people better, but these two people, these thousands of people, are pulling back out. So I'm always thinking about that and I love to have fun. I'm like you will not see me miserable for too long. And I'm like, if I look miserable, I'm probably calculating my way out of it immediately, like I'm not staying.

J. Lee: 40:41

Yeah, I know that's right. Well, everybody, that's what we have time for today, Cam. What are some ways that people can get in touch with you if they're looking to acquire your services or getting some shoot to help them out with their programming?

Kam: 40:52

You can get in touch with me. I am on Instagram heavily at get up and thrive, so that's my positive self talk. And then also for my after school page, rethink after school. I respond on there, I engage on there. I don't post a lot but I do respond to messages and things like that. So those are two easy ways just to connect and reach out, and if you need something, let me know. I'm going to be launching a couple of things in the fall, so I will be connecting with a lot of after school programs in the near future.

J. Lee: 41:26

Well, everyone, that brings us to the end of our show. If you like what you heard and you enjoyed our conversation, make sure that you're following us on YouTube, but also hit that like button so we know what you're enjoying. You can also find us on other podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, spotify and Google Podcasts. If you want to listen to our audio version as well, to get more behind the scenes stuff, make sure that you're following us on our social media accounts Instagram and Facebook, at school after hours. Well, that's all I have for today, and the words of Mr Arthur Ashe start where you are, use what you have, do what you can. Until next time, y'all, bye-bye.